I hope to add some of my end of the tale here.
Obviously Ray Bridges has a real problem with everyone. I am not sure that the Bearhead Creek Redbones are aware of his latest tantrum and rantings. So, I decided to post some of my communications with him here.
I am however, surprised at his lack of knowledge and research experience. Very sadly Ray has decided to create a personal war with me in attempt to hide his ignorance for the common ancestry and ethnic influence concerning the people known as Redbone. I am inclined to believe that group is much more enlightened and open minded than he would allow us to believe.
If anyone would like copies of any of the materials I am posting, please contact me, I will be happy to send those to you.
Here are some of the files and research I have sent to Ray in the last few months. Someone might get some good out of them, but he never commented one way or the other, any of it?
Dear Ray,
In response to your newest blog comments and more;
First of all, Thomas Nash was considered by his family to be a full blooded Cherokee (affidavits given by his sons and grandsons in 1896 to the five civilized tribes). You can see a copy of the affidavits, at my research journal/blog.
Second, check out the DNA results for your "white man's" descendants, they are far from white! You look pretty silly making the comment he was white with those kinds of results!
Third, I was not quoting you! The fact Thomas Nash was a progenitor of La Redbones, I was quoting Don Marler and Jane McManus. I told you this several times?
It's probably difficult for someone outside the discussion to understand why this statement is so offensive.
Ray, you and a few of your BHCRB's are the only one's who make offensive comments and continually claim you are the only RB's. Your elitist group has no basis, and it will likely lead to the groups demise.
Here is a quote from Ray Bridges;
"You people can claim kinship all you want. That does not make us recognize you as kin. If you think I have a stubborn streak on this subject, just wait until you meet the rest of the clan. We're not saying you aren't, but we are not convinced."
This is a very offensive comment and we do not have to convince you or anyone else, of anything! Anyone who shares a descent from the people known as RB, have a right to identify and be part of RHF, period.
Thomas Nash was in La., some of his children were born there, he went back and forth between La. and TX. between 1830-1850 (1850 he was 96 yrs old) he is reported to have died in Natchitoches Parish and buried at Rapides. Many of his descendants, and my grandparents, were born in Rapides Parish. Perhaps you should research the Nash family yourself before you make unsubstantiated comments like this to your blog.
I do not have time to walk you through the history of the people known as RB but likely I have more research, documents and extracted records on my blog/research journal about him, and his descendants, that would help you understand. Go check it all out for yourself!
Also, the term RB is not particular to La. How would Furnam write letters about the people known as RB from SC., if they only existed in La? The map I laid on the table in VA. that many people took an interest to, was not my map, it is a map I found on the Internet.......ahhh, someone else's work.
By the way, I have never ever been "scorned" by the Nash Network. I am in favorable standing with them and have always enjoyed a good and open relationship. The Network does not always like to hear the truth and some blame the messenger rather than the message. The person who seemed to make such a fuss about the color issue, and the person Larry Keels just adores and hangs on every word, we have found with DNA testing, he is not even related to our Thomas Nash family.
Prior to 1790, Thomas Nash is in Ms. Territory/ Natchez District along with many other known RB progenitors, including your James Ashworth!
1790 Opelousas Parish, La.
Thomas Ash
Betsy Ash
1810 St. Landry Parish as
Thomas Ash 7 (all other free not Indian) members of family.
1810 Opelousas parish, La.
Gideon Johnson
Letty Johnson
Gibson Johnson
1820 Opelousas Parish, La.
Thomas Ash
Benjamin Going
Joseph Willis
Gabe pulled his writings at your blog because you are unenlightened with your knowledge of the people known as RB. He and some other's are offended at the BHCRB's exclusiveness and "ridger's only" syndrome. I will have you notice where the Melungeon gathering is this year..it isn't the ridge (Newman's). Big Stone Gap, Va. People might be willing to contribute more to your blog, if you consider this is a learning experience and your opinions are not the end to all.
Ray Bridges wrote;
"You still don't seem to get what pissed me off. Be that as it may, I prefer not to argue about theories. One is as good as another. Just because I don't buy yours does not mean that I'm close minded or ignorant. It just means you haven't convinced me. For all I know you may be right, but you've made plenty of unsubstantiated claims, some annoying and some close to being offensive."
"I don't care that you have passionately held views. I do mind that you are so sure of your opinion that you would say something as asinine as you did."
"KPLC is not interested in the history of mixed-race people in the United States. They are interested in the strange and mysterious people who inhabit the western part of the parish of Calcasieu who are called Redbones. They are the only ones about whom I feel any qualification to write."
"You people can claim kinship all you want. That does not make us recognize you as kin. If you think I have a stubborn streak on this subject, just wait until you meet the rest of the clan. We're not saying you aren't, but we are not convinced. Yelling at me does not convince me either. It just makes me stop listening. Same with telling me that I have a closed mind because I do not agree with you."
"I continue to believe that we are traveling down the same path, even if we travel at different speeds. My direction is determined by the information I learn each day. I do not have a preconceived notion about where we are supposed to end up. Can you be sure of the same? Sometimes I think you read and research to upport your conclusions."
"I do not like conflict and arguing. I will shut someone off if they persist. You can get over my silence a lot more quickly than you're likely to get over my getting down and basic and telling you off. Silence doesn't sting nearly as much as sharp words."
I'm not mad at you, but the chill is still in the air.
I'll be making a report with recommendations to the board tomorrow. The discussion is over when you blame me for not being convinced by what you consider irrefutable evidence. Your failure to convince me of something does not mean I refuse to understand your point. It means that you have failed to convince me. "ParrotsGrl@aol.com wrote:
Hi Ray
"Please don't cut off our communications, even if we disagree I hope we can stick together. I would like to read your article, I think the board members would also appreciate knowing an article will soon be published. I was not being critical, I just wanted to make sure we all have proper representation and acknowledgement. The ones in TX/Ms/SC and other points who might share our heritage, may or may not identify now but I hope to slowly change their ways of thinking and bring pride to their personal heritage. We have to remember we are representing a larger picture for Redbone Heritage Foundation and RB people in general. I do not feel because someone may or may not "identify" with their heritage does not make them any less one of us. Blood is blood and heritage is heritage..if you recognize it or not, it can't be changed. Hope you have a terrific trip and maybe get some rest before you go? I will be working on website updates and my Chronicles article. I am having some trouble with bravenet again but I have a support ticket into them, hope to get it worked out soon."chat soon!
The following emails are all to old to forward, so I am archiving the communications from Ray and myself concerning the "argument" he says we had...it never happened. We had one heated debate or exchange on the telephone after he informed me that his plans for RHF does not include the ones in TX., MS., or any other place but right there in Calcaseui Parish, La. He also informed me that he would not mention or comment on any of the groups in his coming article out of Lake Charles and he certainly did not plan on including anyone who went to or might have remained in Mississippi or any other locations for that matter.
"I intend to concentrate my article and promotional effort with KPLC toward the Redbone American Gypsy theory."
Now, I then sent him evidence his ancestor James Ashworth was in Natchez District, Claiborne Co., Ms to be exact, he bundled those documents up and sent them right back to me with NO COMMENT.
Ray and I never had any argument, and I have never gotten mad or yelled at him for anything. He is a liar.
In an email dated 4/26/2007
I received the following from Ray Bridges in response to the below information I sent to him:
Ray said:
"One list I do want is of members who didn't rejoin. I want to focus a letter and/or email to them asking them to hold tight with us and help us grow into whatever it was they imagined we were when they joined the first year. I haven't forgotten nor have I conceded any of the issues about which we discussed several weeks ago. I don't like to be argumentative. I figure we can argue all we want in Virginia."
Cheers.
My response to Ray dated 4/30/2007 in response to the above
Hi Ray
Glad to hear from you. Are you back from your wonderful adventures? That's OK if you do not agree with me, we can chat and talk about it when we see one another. I will forward you a membership email but not sure it will show only those who did not re up their due's but likely I can mark which did and which did not? I will appreciate anything you can do to help with the membership. I also have a way to send mass emails from our website and have a very very large database of email address for people who are interested in RHF. I will send those along also.
The following is the email that generated the above email to Gabe's post to the RHF blog. I will try to recover his comments about the blog posting but you can get the jest of the communications.
Hi Ray
Well, I did read the new post. I will have to agree that there are known communities of Redbones other than La. and South Carolina. In fact, I am not sure if you know but many our my RB ancestors (children of Thomas Nash) were born in Georgia and Ms.! I have an affidavit from the Nash grandchildren who say James (son of one Thomas Nash) was born in Georgia and the other children in Mississippi. Benjamin Nash (another son of Thomas and another great grandfather of mine) signed The Cherokee, old Settlers treaty in Mississippi. Thomas Nash was a registered tobacco grower and "keeper of the peace" in Mississippi as early as late 1780's. Thomas Nash, Sr who married Unknown and father of Thomas Nash who m Emily Slater and Anna Goins is reported to have died in Lawrence Co., Ms. he was born in North Carolina. True, the Redbones lived many places and I am sure are scattered all over the country.
There was a group who lived around the Black Lake area (1941 La Writers project) and Kasatchie.
There is the Ms community known as Redbone which likely was established by Thomas Nash, Sr and Tobias Gibson, prior to 1800.
Becoming Southern, The Evolution of a Way of Life, Warren County and Vicksburg, Mississippi, 1770-1860 Publisher: Oxford University Press Publication Date: 1995 Page No: 106
I purchased a copy of the above titled book, Becoming Southern and presented it to Ray at the VA Conference in Richmond. He asked me what the book was about and I told him The Redbone Community near Vicksburg, MS. Unfortunately looking back this was the obvious breaking point for Mr Bridges, he said "well, I will never read it our families were never in Mississippi and it is all a fabrication".
When I returned home, I found that his James Ashworth had in fact signed affidavits and witnessed several documents in Claiborne Co., Ms. in Natchez District. I sent the following extracted records to him as an email attachment. Within a few minutes I received an email with all the same files I sent to him in a zip folder with the only this message "NO COMMENT I am returning these to you, this is not my relative". Decide for yourself, some of you may know if it is James Ashworth a progenitor of many La Redbones or not. I do not come through the Ashworth family.
- Early AL, AR, and MI Settlers, 1700s-1800s Ashworth, ??? Book : The Natchez Court Records, 1767-1805 Page # : 369
- Ashworth, James Book : The Natchez Court Records, 1767-1805 Page # : 369
- Ashworth, James Book : The Natchez Court Records, 1767-1805 Page # : 518
- Ashworth, Private John Book : Mississippi Territory in the War of 1812 Page # : 189
South Carolina
Page 1 of 1 -- Select Page: 1
View Details - Record: 1 of 12 recordsSeries: S136002 Box - 003A Item - 00283 ignore - 00 Date: 1711-1712 Description: LONE, GYLES VS WILLIAM ASHWORTH, JUDGMENT ROLL.
View Details - Record: 2 of 12 recordsSeries: S136002 Box - 012B Item - 0004A ignore - 00 Date: 1719 Description: MOORE, THOMAS AND ELIZABETH, HIS WIFE VS JASPER ASHWORTH, EXOR. OF WILLIAM HAWETT, JUDGMENT ROLL.
View Details - Record: 3 of 12 recordsSeries: S372001 Volume - 00B1 Page - 00039 Item - 00 Date: 1720-1722 Description: ASHWORTH, JASPER AND WIFE, SUSANNA TO WILLIAM GIBBON AND ALLEN ANDREW, LEASE AND RELEASE FOR 80 ACRES OF LAND IN GOOSE CREEK AND ALL OTHER LAND OF THEIRS IN ST. PHILIPS PARISH.
View Details - Record: 4 of 12 recordsSeries: S111001 Volume - 0005 Page - 00175 Item - 02 Date: 1733/05/22 Description: INGLETON, RICHARD, MEMORIAL FOR 557 ACRES IN ST. JAMES PARISH, BERKLEY COUNTY, SUMMARIZING A CHAIN OF TITLE TO A GRANT TO JONATHAN AMORY OF MARCH 13, 1694.
View Details - Record: 5 of 12 recordsSeries: S213184 Volume - 0013 Page - 00088 Item - 02 Date: 1770/12/10 Description: ASHWORTH, JAMES, PLAT FOR 450 ACRES IN CRAVEN COUNTY.
View Details - Record: 6 of 12 recordsSeries: S213019 Volume - 0030 Page - 00149 Item - 00 Date: 1774/05/07 Description: ASHWORTH, JAMES, LAND GRANT FOR 450 ACRES IN CRAVEN COUNTY.
View Details - Record: 7 of 12 recordsSeries: S111001 Volume - 0012 Page - 00555 Item - 01 Date: 1774/09/13 Description: ASHWORTH, JAMES, MEMORIAL FOR 450 ACRES ON LITTLE PEE DEE RIVER, CRAVEN COUNTY.
View Details - Record: 8 of 12 recordsSeries: S108092 Reel - 0004 Frame - 00068 ignore - 00 Date: 1776 C. OR LATER Description: ASHWORTH, BENJAMIN, ACCOUNT AUDITED (FILE NO. 177) OF CLAIMS GROWINT OUT OF THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.
View Details - Record: 9 of 12 recordsSeries: S108093 Reel - 0027 Frame - 00296 item - 00 Date: 1811/11/04 Description: SMITH, DAVID OF UNION COUNTY, WILL TYPESCRIPT (MSS WILL: BOOK A, PAGES 268-269; ESTATE PACKET: BOX 8, PKG 40) (1 FRAME).
View Details - Record: 10 of 12 recordsSeries: S108093 Reel - 0027 Frame - 00406 item - 00 Date: 1816/11/04 Description: GUYTON, HANNAH OF UNION DISTRICT, WILL TYPESCRIPT (MSS WILL: BOOK B, PAGE 29; ESTATE PACKET: BOX 8, PKG 30) (1 FRAME).
View Details - Record: 11 of 12 recordsSeries: S213190 Volume - 0041 Page - 00076 Item - 02 Date: 1835/10/09 Description: STAFFORD, NEILL, PLAT FOR 139 ACRES ON NORTH EAST SIDE OF PERSIMON BRANCH, MARION DISTRICT, SURVEYED BY NEIL CARMICHAEL. (2 PAGES)
View Details - Record: 12 of 12 recordsSeries: S108093 Reel - 0003 Frame - 00525 item - 00 Date: 1843/05/02 Description: LOCKHART, JAMES OF ABBEVILLE DISTRICT, WILL TYPESCRIPT (2 FRAMES) (ESTATE PACKET: BOX 57, PKG. 1357)
Perkins census includes Bunch & AshworthState of MississippiEarly Southwest Mississippi Territory Pioneer DB
Early Southwest Mississippi Territory - MSGenWeb
PERKINS Trial, Abstracts of Depositions for Plaintiff
Warren County MSGenWeb Project Pre Statehood Records
NPAP DeepMap Demo Opener
Ancestry of Tobias Gibson
McLeod-Booklet-01
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/la/opelousas/census/1810/0311.gif
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/la/opelousas/census/1810/0327.gif
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/la/opelousas/census/1810/0326.gif
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/la/opelousas/census/1810/0325.gif
1790 Census SCGenWeb Archives
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/la/calcasieu/bible/goins.txt
Nicholas Perkins Land Claim
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/la/opelousas/census/1810/0316.gif
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ga/muscogee/cemeteries/getzmem.txtSincere
PAKANA MUSKOGEE INDIANS
Database = Native American DataSELECT surname,fname,tribe,type,enrollment_type,age,sex,blood_pct,card_no,roll_no,source,notes FROM main,surnames,tribes,enrollment WHERE main.id='167804' AND lname_id=surnames.id and tribe_id=tribes.id and enrollment.main_id='167804'
Native American Data for J W Ashworth
Name: Ashworth, J WTribe: ChoctawRecord Type: enrollmentSex: MEnrollment Type: P (Parent)Card No.: 1860
Credit belongs to the staff of SW National Archives, Fort Worth, Texas, who compiled the names from the Dawes Enrollment Cards for its National Archives
Others with this Family:
Surname
First Name
Type
Sex
Age
Blood %
Ashworth
J W
P (Parent)
M
Ashworth
Sarah
P (Parent)
F
Battiest
Gibson
P (Parent)
M
Battiest
Winnie
P (Parent)
F
Battiest
Lewis G
BB (By Blood)
M
30
FULL
Battiest
Effie
BB (By Blood)
F
24
IW
Battiest
Lewis G Jr
BB (By Blood)
M
4
1/2
Battiest
Doyle
BB (By Blood)
M
1
1/2
Battiest
Henry Lloyd
BB (By Blood)
M
1
1/2
User-Added Notes (click here to add a note): none
Native American Data for Sarah Ashworth
Name: Ashworth, SarahTribe: ChoctawRecord Type: enrollmentSex: FEnrollment Type: P (Parent)Card No.: 1860
Credit belongs to the staff of SW National Archives, Fort Worth, Texas, who compiled the names from the Dawes Enrollment Cards for its National Archives
Others with this Family:
Surname
First Name
Type
Sex
Age
Blood %
Ashworth
J W
P (Parent)
M
Ashworth
Sarah
P (Parent)
F
Battiest
Gibson
P (Parent)
M
Battiest
Winnie
P (Parent)
F
Battiest
Lewis G
BB (By Blood)
M
30
FULL
Battiest
Effie
BB (By Blood)
F
24
IW
Battiest
Lewis G Jr
BB (By Blood)
M
4
1/2
Battiest
Doyle
BB (By Blood)
M
1
1/2
Battiest
Henry Lloyd
BB (By Blood)
M
1
1/2
User-Added Notes (click here to add a note): noneFrom Ray
I forgot what I was going to say;
I started out with the intention of saying something important. Maybe not important as such, but interesting to the point.I'm writing my blog posting for KPLC right now. I think there was some point I wanted to run by you, but right now I can't remember it. Damn, I hate when that happens.I inadvertently took a copy of The Cherry Winch Country which I re-read on the plane coming home. I find it so patently offensive. I wish one of our better writers would make up a story in response to it. Hint. Hint. I would, but I'm busy. I thought your ancestor Thomas Nash was in one of those fights. Which one? The Cherry Winche book says there are three groups of Redbones: those around Oakdale and Pitkin, Bearhead Creek, and a nest of the vipers in East Texas. Was the East Texas ones a combination of your Nash and Stringers and the collateral kin from James Ashworth Jr?. You know he was in Angelina County in the 1850s and later. How extensive a community was it? How many families can you identify? Is there a community of Redbones there now, and do any of them, (other than you), identify as Redbones?My present approach to KPLC is that the word Redbone is a word used by the dominant society rather than Mulatto which had too many other meanings by the late 1800s. I think they used it on purpose to distinguish us from sub-saharan Africans.I'll send you a copy of the post when I get close to being finished. I hope you'll feel comfortable enough to challenge me if I say something you disagree with strongly. I doubt I will, but I want to run it by our board and several other interested parties before I submit it. I am who I am, but I also represent the RHF, and I don't want to be perceived as straying too far afield.Now, another request. Again, I'm not being argumentative. I want to read what you've read and understand your point of view. Where in Don's book does he credit Thomas Nash as being the proginator of so many Redbones? I want to understand where that comes from. I read through the book and couldn't find it. I've asked my buddy in Oakdale to take me around and introduce me to some of his folk when I'm down there next week. I'd also head to East Texas if there were any other Redbone identified people there besides Larry Keels, and he scares me.
More to come!
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